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Old 11-04-2009, 07:50 AM   #1
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When is it OK

I despise liars, but to say I have never lied would be a lie. When I was a kid my parents demand for perfection became to much, so in order to stay out of trouble I would Lie...Bad. I have always taught my children not to lie and my policy is don't ask me if you don't want the truth. However I have found myself bending the truth to protect a loved ones feelings. So is that OK, its still a lie. But to hurt someone I Love when its unnecessary seems wrong also. Some say a little white lie never hurt anyone, whats the difference between the two? A lie is a lie right? So when is it OK to lie if ever? Would you rather be lied to or have the truth hurt you? Umm lots of questions.
 
Old 11-04-2009, 08:41 AM   #2
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So a past SO was having an affair and when I asked about it, he lied. Was it so he wouldn't get in trouble? Was it to PROTECT me?

I find myself dancing around to protect people.. and it's too much work. And eventually the truth may come out. It's not your job to protect everyone from what's out there in the world. They were raised, became strong and can most likely handle what ever it is.

Does everybody need to know everything? No. But don't lie about it.
 
Old 11-04-2009, 08:45 AM   #3
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to WB. Nicely stated.
 
Old 11-04-2009, 09:01 AM   #4
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Thanks, Chris.
 
Old 11-04-2009, 09:51 AM   #5
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yeah, I'd say she WB nailed it (and much more eloquently than I would've).
 
Old 11-04-2009, 10:22 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sin808 View Post
yeah, I'd say she WB nailed it (and much more eloquently than I would've).
 
Old 11-04-2009, 03:09 PM   #7
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Any instance where you would think you need to know and I dont want to tell you, I will tell you that it is none of your damn business, it doesnt concern you, or its not in your lane of travel. Push it again, and you are going to get the truth about it; and I bet you wont like it.

Rules of engagement are there for a reason. Heed them well.

"Did you sleep with X?" Thats really none of your business. Did you sleep with her?!? (apparently volume matters) Nope, there was no sleeping involved, I f'd her senseless, took some pics of it and put them up on youtube, go get a beer and watch for yourself.
 
Old 11-04-2009, 05:03 PM   #8
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see WB post...print it, live it and do it.

"It's not your job to protect everyone from what's out there in the world. They were raised, became strong and can most likely handle what ever it is."

and if they can't handle it, well, lying to them only adds to the origninal problem.
 
Old 11-04-2009, 07:46 PM   #9
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Hehe.... I'm a dick. I know it, and the ones who really know me, know it. Ask me a question, you'll probably get an honest answer whether you like it or not. Like the chick who wanted to know why I was being rude to her when she called me after she started ignoring my calls. I told her, in so many words, because she only called me when she needed work done on her car. I told her I wasn't sleeping with her, so if she wanted me to fix her car, she'd have to pay for it.

Captain Tact, I ain't.
 
Old 11-04-2009, 07:58 PM   #10
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Thanks WB and everyone really good advise. But now the kicker what if this person was your Mother.
 
Old 11-04-2009, 09:23 PM   #11
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My mother always told me "it's not what you say but how you say it." I believe it is always best to be honest and tell the truth but just be careful about your tone and how you express yourself.
 
Old 11-04-2009, 09:30 PM   #12
oK, fine, its COUGAR :P
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
see WB post...print it, live it and do it.

"It's not your job to protect everyone from what's out there in the world. They were raised, became strong and can most likely handle what ever it is."

and if they can't handle it, well, lying to them only adds to the origninal problem.



Absolutely on target ^^^^^^
 
Old 11-05-2009, 12:02 AM   #13
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Oh hell why not lie to people like that... they are already to damn ignorant to live their lives right.... They def. wouldn't be able to handle the truth.
 
Old 11-05-2009, 06:44 AM   #14
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^^I was very very honest with her once about the way I felt. I said some things she didn't want to hear..she threw a knife at me so you can see my dilemma..she keeps asking the same question.. I keep side stepping. I did however tell her I'm tired of being the Mom in this relationship she hung up on me. I have to be cautious with her she has had 3 nervous break downs 2 of which I'm responsible for, or so she thinks. Being born to a 18yr old who was unstable to begin with. I guess having a girl was to much..breakdown #1. Making her a grandmother for the first time before she was 50.. I was 24..Breakdown #2..Wow, I'm a horrible person
 
Old 11-05-2009, 08:49 AM   #15
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Now if it was me, I'd tell her to get over herself...but then my mom has always been a tough one, and I've always been a smartass, and ridiculously blunt.

Take, for example, the time when I was twelve, and me and my brother had a day off school. As my mother was going to work, she ducked into the room and said, "Boys, I'd REALLY like to see this house cleaned up a bit when I get home." To which I responded, "Well, I'd REALLY like to see a million dollars......but the fact is, it's just not gonna happen in this lifetime."

Or when she found out I'd bought a motorcycle, she got very upset, and told me, "I just thought you were smarter than that." I laughed and told her, "Well, that'll teach ya, won't it?"

However, that kind of smart-assery is really only tolerated because our family (or what's left of it) is generally very open and honest about things, and while we may tend toward wry humor to cover the most intense emotions, we don't tiptoe around each other's feelings or try to hide things to protect each other.

I'm thankful for my family. And I figure, if my mom didn't have a breakdown raising ME, she can handle anything we can throw at her now....
 
Old 11-05-2009, 08:53 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsD View Post
^^I was very very honest with her once about the way I felt. I said some things she didn't want to hear..she threw a knife at me so you can see my dilemma..she keeps asking the same question.. I keep side stepping. I did however tell her I'm tired of being the Mom in this relationship she hung up on me. I have to be cautious with her she has had 3 nervous break downs 2 of which I'm responsible for, or so she thinks. Being born to a 18yr old who was unstable to begin with. I guess having a girl was to much..breakdown #1. Making her a grandmother for the first time before she was 50.. I was 24..Breakdown #2..Wow, I'm a horrible person
No, you're a wise, caring, wonderful person. Your mom just can't handle it.

My mom is no prize either. I spent a long time trying to "do the right thing", have a relationship with her and keep her in my life, but the fact is that she's too narcissistic and manipulative for that to be a reasonable expectation. I've been much happier (and more effective) since I've accepted that reality and started living my life accordingly--by my standards, not hers. Your description strikes me as similar.
 
Old 11-05-2009, 09:16 AM   #17
Married and then some.
 
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Driftertank your a luky guy don't forget that.

CForce..Thank You, BIG HUG..you and I should sit and have a drink to our Mothers sometime.
 
Old 11-05-2009, 09:27 AM   #18
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You're welcome, and I'll look forward to that =).
 
Old 11-05-2009, 09:47 AM   #19
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My Mom would have been the last person I would have lied to about how I felt...Dear Lord did we have some seriously nasty fights...and it lasted YEARS. It wasn't until the last 2 years of her life did we start to see eye to eye and realize that we both just wanted to have a relationship, and by the graces of God, we were able to clean the slate and just enjoy each other for who we were, not the mistakes that we made.

I feel you're pain MrsD, as I hope you know, you are not the cause of how your Mom feels, she may think so cause she doesn't want to look inside to find out what is really wrong, so much easier pointing fingers. We are the only ones responsible for how we feel. I think in you being honest with her about how you feel will make you feel liberated, despite how she may react. At least you can say to yourself, you were honest and didn't hide anything. And to me, that is a huge win, and opens the door for more open and honest conversation in the future, whether or not it's with her.

Just my .02 And FYI..I personally think you're amazing and any Mother would be proud to call you daughter.
 
Old 11-05-2009, 12:10 PM   #20
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Telling lies (even little white ones) is just a short term cover up and only smooths things out temporarily. It sounds like being blunt without beating around the bush has not been successful in the past. I guess the trick is to be tactful and truthful without offending her because she's your mom. Normally, I'd say who cares, but this is your mom you are talking about. Take your time before you respond to formulate your thoughts... think of a new presentation with your reponse that might go over better with her without too many details.

Or, maybe it would be better if your mom found out her answers from someone other than you... tell her to go ask someone else and that you want to talk about something different. That way they get the knives thrown at them instead (wow that's nuts).



(I'm just babbling... what do I know- I don't know your mom at all, nevermind.)
 
Old 11-05-2009, 05:49 PM   #21
Litte Mary Sunshine
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsD View Post
Thanks WB and everyone really good advise. But now the kicker what if this person was your Mother.
awww shit...backpeddle - backpeddle. Your mom is not dealing with a full deck...I'm not trying to be hurtful, but I doubt she ever has. (I love you). I'm crazy, but your mom just has no concept of reality. I doubt anyone can hand it to her and have her accept it.

That said, do what your soul tells you to. If ya want to be honest and it cleanses your soul - do it. Yes, it will fall on deaf ears but it will no longer be a burden on your heart. And yes, knowing your Mom she WILL retaliate, it's in her nature, although it's no excuse for some of her fucking crazy behavior.

I say do it..unleash the beast. Shit it can't make things any worse, it sure as hell won't make things better.
 
Old 11-06-2009, 06:17 AM   #22
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^^ thanks Sis and everyone..I came to the realization that if it was bothering me enough to start a thread about what was right and wrong. That lying to her even a white lie was wrong, it goes against my respect for myself. She will not like my answer and I will say it with kindness and love, she is my Mother. I am a protector, I always have been and always will be, its who I am and its what I'm supposed to do. But I can protect with the truth like I always have, just in this case its not my mistake, nor is it my place to judge. I cannot protect her from herself, I can give her the tools, its up to her to use them. I always wanted that Mother- Daughter relationship that I heard so much about. I tried so hard for so many years. Then I just finally accepted my place and stopped trying, then she tried and I couldn't respond it felt so phony. Wrong of me I'm sure but I just couldn't trust her, turns out I was right. So I try to give my girls what I didn't have unconditional love. A Mom who is always there no matter what, a Mom who listens and does not judge, a Mom who shares all the bad decisions she ever made, a Mom who stayed in Love with there Dad. A Mom who survived losing trust at the age of 5, a rape and an abusive marriage, all without telling anyone until years later. I'm a Mom who told my girls I am not perfect, I will screw up, I don't know what the hell I'm doing, but I'm doing it the very best I can. I am a Survivor and you will be too, because no matter what happens, no matter what choice's you make I will be there. They have always had my best and just look where that got me a daughter and two babies living in my home..no sex.. that's what it got me... I wouldn't change a thing. I want to thank you all again from my heart, for letting me lean on you. It always makes me smile to know that on a ship of misfits I fit in and they care.
 
Old 11-07-2009, 10:57 PM   #23
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Family is easy, they aint even worth a lie. If they gonna get all upset about the truth, then as a matter of fact, I dont feel the need to engage them in conversation at all. Havent talked to the parentals in 25 years, I see no reason to start now. Nobody F's your life up like family. do your best to ignore em, disown em, relocate away from them, and get on with living the rest of your life.

But then again I am an @$$hole by all acounts in the family because I wont kiss @ss or play nice. meh.
 
Old 11-08-2009, 06:41 AM   #24
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^^ Couldn't be farther from the truth for me in my life.

I am here because of them... what's that worth?
 
Old 11-08-2009, 06:24 PM   #25
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Wtf? Really?
I`m an asshole and wont kiss anyones ass nor play nice nice ..... But to right off your family for over 25 years?!?!
Sure they give you stress at times and throw you screw balls... But they are you fucking family!?!?!
Your parents were not thinking 25 years ago that when they decided to have you come in into THEIR world... that you would turn your back and walk?!?

I now have an idea why you are like you are with relationships and how your thought process works with engaging into someone with someone... When the most basic, easy, given relationship in your life is not there.
 
Old 12-19-2009, 11:26 PM   #26
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I'm a Dude
Living in Sequim - Yeah, Baby!

It was never the most basic, easy, given relationship in my life. It was quite possibly the most evil, venomous detrimental and abject horrid portion of my life.
the summer before highschool I tried to kill myself once a week, everything short of a gun. Funny, I even did down the block than across the street , didnt seem to matter.
So I figured if I couldnt get suicided out of it, I would run away from it.
Theres a long list of shi@t in my family that its a g-d messed up, they should never have been allowed to breed.

just for a peak, I was 9. Saw a family member murdered. I was told I go to the cops I was next. It aint F*cking Leave it to Beaver. (oh by the way, he did go to trial later and was aquitted by a 'temporary insanity' plea and out in 9 months time because his dad bought off time out of the 'mental hospital' cuz he could afford it) So excuse the flaming F8ck out of me if I think family is bezbenghoyana (as worthless as an old hag that tries to shiate her self in the corner of a round room)
/rant
 
Old 12-20-2009, 05:51 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cityxslicker View Post
It was never the most basic, easy, given relationship in my life. It was quite possibly the most evil, venomous detrimental and abject horrid portion of my life.
the summer before highschool I tried to kill myself once a week, everything short of a gun. Funny, I even did down the block than across the street , didnt seem to matter.
So I figured if I couldnt get suicided out of it, I would run away from it.
Theres a long list of shi@t in my family that its a g-d messed up, they should never have been allowed to breed.

just for a peak, I was 9. Saw a family member murdered. I was told I go to the cops I was next. It aint F*cking Leave it to Beaver. (oh by the way, he did go to trial later and was aquitted by a 'temporary insanity' plea and out in 9 months time because his dad bought off time out of the 'mental hospital' cuz he could afford it) So excuse the flaming F8ck out of me if I think family is bezbenghoyana (as worthless as an old hag that tries to shiate her self in the corner of a round room)
/rant
You can pick your friends you can't pick your family. I'm sorry that's F'd up no child should ever have to go through that kind of crap. Your a very strong person to get out, overcome and even be able to talk about it. They obviously didn't deserve to have children, glad you made it out.
 
Old 12-25-2009, 07:04 PM   #28
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I dont really talk about it. It changes nothing, so there is nothing to work through. Which why I am not a big fan of 'Sorry' It changes nothing.
Usually if some askes about family, they died when I was a kid, and I joined the military at 15, it really shuts em down. Esp since that is most all are getting. I share little, I trust less. I made sure I break the cycle, I aint ever having kids, and never getting hitched. And it will be a cold day in hell before I associate with the family again. Theres a reason I changed my name and left town, its about due to do it again.
 
Old 12-29-2009, 03:59 PM   #29
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I couldn't lie to my mom if I tried. She's too smart - she'd see right through me. My mom is by far my best friend and I feel pretty confident that I can tell her anything.. Even when her wardrobe and hair styles need to be recycled..
 
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